Talk:Superman (Original)
Add this render? http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/File:GA_Kal-L_render_by_HIT_IT.png --Hit (talk) 16:11, September 26, 2016 (UTC) It's a great render, so I've added it. It's up to Ant and the others for the final say on whether it or not it stays though. Reppuzan (talk) 16:23, September 26, 2016 (UTC) I made one for Old Kal-L too http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/File:Older_Kal-L_render_by_HIT_IT.png --Hit (talk) 18:34, September 26, 2016 (UTC) The first one is good. The render of the second one is fine as well, but we probably need a better template image to start with, given that a foot is missing. Antvasima (talk) 05:47, September 27, 2016 (UTC) I rendered the new image you suggested, and Lina Shields added it. You can revert the change if you don't consider it good enough or something like that --Hit (talk) 17:05, September 28, 2016 (UTC) I think that it seems fine. Antvasima (talk) 17:30, September 28, 2016 (UTC) thanks :-) Hit (talk) 19:55, October 3, 2016 (UTC) No problem. Antvasima (talk) 06:08, October 4, 2016 (UTC) "Golden Age" The structure on this page is kind of odd, and it's something that flows from the fact that there wasn't really a defined point where this guy switched over to being Pre-Crisis. In his first appearances, he couldn't even fly, and the majority of his feats were Large Building level at best. His "blows out a star" feat happened in the 50s, for instance. I dunno, it just doesn't sit right to have him be listed as simply "4-C" for his Golden Age appearances when for much of those, it was stated that a bursting shell could potentially hurt him. I'm not really sure to handle this, but a "First Appearance" or "1930s" section (similar to Kid Goku's "First Appearance" listing) might cover it.Jack Zigler (talk) 02:35, May 12, 2017 (UTC) I agree that adding an "Originally" key of 8-C or so, seems appropriate. I will ask Matthew about it. Antvasima (talk) 08:24, May 12, 2017 (UTC) First of all, I checked and his 4-C feats happen in 40s comics. The blowing out a star happens in a 1946 issue set in Earth Two. The Silver Age started in 1948 with the introduction of Barry Allen, so that feat still happened in the Golden Age. However, I agree that in the 1930s comics Superman was very weak. Though definitely not as weak as you claim. If I don't remember, Pre-Flight Superman destroys a large meteor. But High 8-C (He lifts an entire ship too, if I reccal) and Supersonic+ for "1930s" is okay Matthew Schroeder (talk) 08:46, May 12, 2017 (UTC) Thanks for the correction on which issue it came from. Let me elaborate, though: the thing about Earth-Two is that it's a retcon. Yes, Flash's Silver Age debut was in 1956, but Superman never had an "okay, everything from this point onward takes place in a different Earth" moment - he just kept on trucking throughout the 50s while everyone else slowly dropped off, his stories moving with full continuity. It wasn't even explicitly stated that the changeover had happened until 1967. Hell, Earth-One Superman technically debuted in 1945, as that's when Superboy started publication (and no, he can't be a young version of Earth-Two Superman, he was always depicted as being far more powerful). There is an era generally considered to be "Silver Age Superman", starting in 1958, but that has more to do with the aesthetic, storytelling style, and creative team than any actual moment. So assigning their feats properly is a bit tricky. His power was indeed ramped up over time, probably because characters like The Spectre or Captain Marvel or Doctor Fate started to show up and make "he can lift a tank and jump hella high" look like chump change. For my part, though, I always thought that Earth-Two's lower power at his debut was a lot of the appeal of those stories, which is a lot of the reason for why I find it off-putting that it's not gvien representation here. The common image of early Superman (going by, for instance, the New 52 guy's early history) is "real tough dude who beats up corrupt bankers and mad scientists", not "nascent god who can smash the moon one-handed." Or if nothing else, I'd like to see a page for the Fleischer Superman , who is largely based on that incarnation and has a pretty similar level of power, just to represent that era.Jack Zigler (talk) 15:56, May 12, 2017 (UTC) Could you please keep the posts shorter? You add a lot of needless details and adjetives and make it hard to read the main point. The Superman feats that make him 4-C and MFTL+ are all from 40s storylines, thus Silver Age. The Superman storyline with the sneezing feat is in Earth-Two. Superboy has nothing to do with the issue where that came out. Also, Superman could survive nukes since the early 40s so the claim that he's just a "super tough dude" is false, and even so that's arguing with authorial intent over feats. And Fleischer Superman survives a nuke too, if I believe. Matthew Schroeder (talk) 16:23, May 12, 2017 (UTC) I would appreciate if you could fix the profile accordingly Matthew. Antvasima (talk) 18:20, May 12, 2017 (UTC) I am sorry. I am still new, and trying to learn the etiquitte. Thank you for your patience with me. When I reference Superboy, it is to say that there is no defined cutoff point for Golden Age Superman's feats. All that can be said is that it's somewhere between 1945 and 1958. Still, this is a derail, so I'll drop it. Fleischer Superman never survived a nuke. The closest thing is surviving a powerful laser. I don't believe there's a comic where GA does, either. There are definitely comics where he survives powerful bombs, though. Jack Zigler (talk) 18:59, May 12, 2017 (UTC) @Ant I'd fix it, but I dunno how exactly. Would you want a Key for the original, 1930s Superman which was super weak? Because his power grows in leaps and bounds throughout the Golden Age until by the end of it in 1946, he is Tier 4 and MFTL+. But yeah, in the 1938 - 39 comics he was 8-C and Supersonic+ Matthew Schroeder (talk) 19:12, May 12, 2017 (UTC) I think a key for "30s" and "40s" would cover it pretty well. Thank you again. Jack Zigler (talk) 20:28, May 12, 2017 (UTC) I think that a "First Appearances"/"Originally" key should work fine. Antvasima (talk) 07:15, May 13, 2017 (UTC) Is anyone gonna add the "First Appearances" part to the key? I would but only mods can edit the page. Natse (talk) 05:17, May 16, 2017 (UTC) You can ask Matthew about it. Antvasima (talk) 07:21, May 16, 2017 (UTC)